The Photo Opp Podcast – Episode 3: Making Print Sales a Part of Your Client Experience | Guest: Karen Clouse at Shootproof
Today’s episode of the Photo Opp Podcast covers making print sales a part of your client experience. Print sales can make a good source of additional income for your business but making it a part of your client experience can make it a consistent and permanent source. We explore how to create a unique client experience around print sales with Karen Clouse at Shootproof.
• Why photographers should even bother with print sales
• How to easily add print sales to your business
• Selling prints without being pushy
• Advice for photographers expanding their consumer photography businesses
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Megan Breukelman: [00:00:13] Welcome back to the photo op podcast. Today, we’re talking to Karen class from Shootproof, a digital gallery and printing platform. Karen is also a photographer. So welcome, Karen. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to talk to you today. Thank you for being here. So tell our listeners a little bit about you. Well, OK, that’s a tough question.
Karen Clouse: [00:00:31] I’ll try to put it in a nutshell. So my name is Karen. I’m currently working in customer success at ShootProof. But really, I think, you know, I’m a creative person at heart. Having owned a jewelry supply store before, having taught jewelry design and metal smithing, those things are kind of also in my past. I closed up shop with my jewelry stuff after having kids and then kind of turned to photography is kind of like my creative outlet. And so I kind of think I think as many of the maybe female photographers who have kids have kind of gone down this path. You know, you have babies, you’ve got your kids. You’re inspired to kind of treasure more of those fleeting moments. And, you know, you start noticing more and more of the little things in life. And then one day you pick up a camera and you think, you know, this is a great way to capture that stuff. So that was kind of the route that I took with my photography journey. And, you know, practicing on family, friends, pets, neighbors, and then eventually moving into strangers and gaining more confidence and then getting actually into business. So I do still shoot on the side. But having this job at Shootproof where I get to work with photographers like literally day in and day out, it kind of fulfills that creative side while also giving me a chance to, you know, try out a new career. You know, I don’t want to say like a corporate career because we’re not really a corporate company, but it does give you a path to grow. So that’s kind of where I’m at right now. And what kind of photography are you shooting when you are doing your photography business? So when I started out, I shot everything, mainly starting with newborns, then going into families and seniors. I even did a wedding once, which I really didn’t like sporting events at my kids school. I started doing that, but I really found my sweet spot with families and newborn photography. I think maybe because I kind of come from that same area and I’m able to connect with them in like a really authentic way, like I feel like I am my client. So I think that kind of helps me be successful in serving them.
Megan Breukelman: [00:02:52] Ok. And that’s amazing and I love the idea that, you know, the clients you’re working with are kind of your ideal clients because they’re kind of a mirror of you.
Karen Clouse: [00:03:01] Exactly right. I think it lends to some kind of empathy. You know, like when you’re shooting a newborn session and the poor mom, you know, needs to nurse her baby, you know, I can sit back and give her that time because I’ve been there. And I don’t want to rush her. So, you know, that’s kind of the I think the part of the customer service that clients kind of appreciate and that keeps them coming back and gets word of mouth referrals for me, too.
Megan Breukelman: [00:03:28] And I have to ask, as a wedding photographer, what was it about weddings that just, it was a no for you.
Karen Clouse: [00:03:35] So it was a no for me. The one wedding that I did was it was a smaller wedding. So she wanted just one shooter, not a second shooter. It was an outdoor wedding. The conditions were not great. And not having a second shooter. It was scary. You know, I was sitting there taking pictures of this couple, making their lifetime commitment to each other. And what if I didn’t get the shot right? You know what? If I ruined everything. And you know, that would be it for them. This was their one chance to get photos of it. So it was just kind of. It was really stressful for me because you can’t really sit back and take your time and reshoot. You know, you’ve got to get it right the first time because they’re gonna be onto the next thing. And you could miss something super important.
Megan Breukelman: [00:04:22] Absolutely. And I have been there. I have been a solo shooter at weddings. And I’m so glad that my business is with my husband now because always having backup, who definitely is a stress saver. So completely relatable. And then with your family clients, what kind of what kind of experience do you give them?
[00:04:42] So I think, first of all, I do think a lot about the client experience. That’s very, very important to me. So the experience that I give my client starts from the moment we first make contact. So it’s letting them know what to expect. It’s doing little things like, you know, making sure that it’s OK for me to bring a little piece of candy to, you know, do a little bribing during the session. It’s finding out about the family beforehand. So finding out about the kids interests so that I can relate to them on a personal level while I’m taking their pictures. That way, it makes it less scary that this lady has a big camera in my face. I think what also helps me relate to them is that getting my own family pictures taken when my kids were littler, it was always just so stressful to me that my kids would not sit still and look at the camera and smile. And for my clients, that’s the opposite of what I do. You know, I say go run around, have the kids run. Don’t look at the camera. Look at each other. Interact with each other. And I think it makes them feel more comfortable. At least I know that it would make me feel more comfortable. So, you know, kind of giving that experience to them, you know, keeps them coming back and again, giving those word of mouth referrals. It’s also when they see those images of their family interacting with each other, there’s little moments that maybe mom missed. Maybe she didn’t see the brother and sister, you know, have their arms around each other and looking at them, looking at each other with silly faces. And then when she sees those images after the fact, you know, that kind of tugs at the heartstrings. So, you know, just being able to catch those little moments, I think that’s also kind of part of the customer experience after the fact. Absolutely. And client experience is really important to you, it seems.
Megan Breukelman: [00:06:27] And I think that really ties into working in customer success. So I would love for you to tell us a little bit about how you see the deer photography passions into your career and kind of vice versa. Like, how are those worlds interconnected for you?
Karen Clouse: [00:06:40] Yeah, absolutely. So in the beginning, I was doing, you know, kind of newborn and family sessions and then giving my clients Dropbox links. And I was fine with that. You know, they would pay for this session that included all of the digitals. I’d provide them that link and that would be it. I looked into online gallery services, which is how I ended up at Shootproof. Actually, I was using Shootproof in my photography business and I called the support line and spoke with a lovely support agent who is still here and found out that she proof was local to me and that they had a job opening. So when I interviewed for the job, that was actually one of the things that they asked is, are you a photographer? Most of the people here who work in support are photographers and are used to giving that client experience. So my youngest was actually about to start school and I figured I’d have some extra time to spare. So I applied for the job and I started in the job. So over the next two years, while I was in the support team, I talked to literally tens of thousands of photographers either on the phone or via email. Well, I know it’s. During number, I learned about their businesses. What worked for people, what didn’t work for people? What sets apart a successful photographer? And all that time I was helping them use this particular tool to help them in their business. So I took that knowledge and then became one of the first members of our customer success team last year. So having spoken to all of those photographers, put me in such a unique place where I had all of that knowledge from tens of thousands of photographers in my head that could help inform our marketing and product teams on what our customers needed, what they needed to be successful and what kind of questions they were asking. Maybe what wasn’t intuitive, what they needed to help them grow their businesses and what they needed to help give their clients the perfect client experience. So it kind of helped inform shoe proof as a company, too. And through that, we’ve we’ve begun to start education initiatives like weekly webinars where we kind of go beyond traditional product training and help make our customers make smart business decisions that ultimately help them reach their goals and their dreams for their businesses. So it’s been a really cool ride going from giving that client experience to my clients to helping other photographers give that client experience to their clients using a tool that I’m working for.
Megan Breukelman: [00:09:18] Wow. That’s honestly so incredible. And for people who are listening who might not know what Shootproof is exactly. Can you explain kind of the platform? Yes, sure.
Karen Clouse: [00:09:29] So at the core, Shootproof is an online photo gallery provider. So it’s a tool that photographers use to share and sell their images online. We’re mainly used by client based photographers. So somebody who has a known client where you can share a link to view those images. People who are like portrait photographers, headshots, weddings, those are typically the kind of people that would find the most value out of using an online gallery and then just beyond viewing a photo gallery. Clients can download Digital’s either for free or for purchase. Also, they can purchase prints, canvasses, medals. They can do things like pay for invoices and sign contracts digitally. They can also do things like make album selections and share favorites with friends and family. So you can also create a mobile app, which is kind of like a digital photo album that you can share with your clients. It’s branded with your logo and your brand’s colors and it has all of your contact info. So it’s a great way for your clients to share their gallery with their friends and family. And it’s a great way to spread word of mouth referrals for you. Well, I didn’t even know about that feature. Yeah, some photographers actually use it as a digital business card so they’ll load their mobile app as their portfolio images. And then instead of handing out paper business cards, they will just text their mobile app to whoever it is that they meet on the street that’s curious about their photography. And then that person literally has our contact info and the portfolio right there on their phone. So there’s a lot of really creative ways to use that.
Megan Breukelman: [00:11:07] Very cool. And can you kind of explain the photo delivery experience that photographers have with Shootproof?
Karen Clouse: [00:11:13] Yeah, sure. So from the photographer side, after the session is done, you upload the photos to a gallery and depending on your business model, this could be either a soft proofed or fully edited images. You can customize that gallery with your logo and brand colors. That way, when your clients, you know, go from your Web site to their gallery, it’s kind of like a seamless branded experience. Then the photographer will email the link to the gallery to the client using a branded email template that you can create within Shootproof and the client within access the gallery either with or without a password. All of those things are fully customizable. And then from there they can view the images, favorite them. They can do things like labeling and hiding images, and then they can share with friends and family. And of course, if you set up online purchasing, they can also add items to their cart and check out right there from within the gallery, from the photographer side. I think the real power comes from the marketing tools like automated email campaigns that you can use to target certain peop
le who have visited a gallery, for instance. If you see that someone has abandoned that cart, for example, you can target certain email campaigns to send to them to encourage them to purchase most of the time before a certain expiration date or something like that. And that is another way that you can, you know, kind of push sales is by creating that urgency, by creating expiration dates. And you can also tie promo codes to that. So, you know, if you order by such and such a date, you get a 20 percent off of your cart. So it’s it’s a really powerful. Marketing tool for the photographer. But I also feel like the client sees it as great customer service as well, so it’s really a win win for both sides.
Megan Breukelman: [00:13:00] And like up until recently. Honestly, I was sharing client images, via Dropbox and Google Drive. So why does the photo delivery experience matter for clients?
Karen Clouse: [00:13:10] Yes. So I’ve totally been there. I’ve done that. I think that delivering your clients images in a beautiful way does a few things. It sets you apart as a professional when you deliver your images in a way that’s completely aligned with your brand. It also helps you tell a story when you can arrange images for viewing in a way that tells the story of the day or the experience that kind of captures the emotion, which is a really important part of the customer experience. And really the customer experience is what it’s about. It makes it easy and I mean kind of fun for your clients to be able to see. Download, purchase their images right there on their computer or their phone rather than opening up a bunch of different files on their computer. And also, they can go back again and again again to look at the gallery, to relive the whole experience over and over again. And, you know, since they’re there and they’re a captured audience and they’ve got that emotion in the moment, they’re right there and they can put their credit card in and purchase either the digitals or the prints or whatever it is you’re selling. So, you know, it’s a super convenient way for them as well.
Megan Breukelman: [00:14:17] And there are printing options. Can you tell us what the deal with that is?
Karen Clouse: [00:14:22] Yes. So we partner with a bunch of the largest labs here in the US and also internationally for international clients. So here in the US, the big ones are like a photo, Millar’s White House and the pricing is set. Well, of course, the price that you pay the lab is, of course, set by the lab. But then you as a photographer have complete control over what you are going to charge your clients. Knowing always that Shootproof does not take commissions on that. So, you know, whatever it is, whatever the profit margin is that you want to make. You just go ahead and price it accordingly, knowing that all of that money comes back to you. We’re not taking a cut of that. And then so once a client places an order, the photographer has a chance to review and edit the order, do things like change crops. They can add texture and mounting. If the lab has those options, they can add color correction and boutique packaging. If you’re soft proofing files, you can swap them out for a fully edited files. And this is my favorite part. You go in and you do all that and then you click a button and shoot. Proof takes care of sending those photos directly to the lab. So you don’t have to upload those files to rows. Shootproof takes care of handling the files for you. So with that click of a button, those files are off to the lab and the lab starts their work. They fulfill the order usually within a one to two day turnaround time, and then the order can shift either directly to the client. So you don’t have to do anything or if you prefer to, you know, take a look or even repackage it in your own packaging, you can have it shipped to your studio as well.
Megan Breukelman: [00:16:01] And that’s so that’s so easy. I mean, as a photographer who’s pretty much 100 percent digital, everything. I hadn’t even considered adding printing to my business. And I mean, I’m lazy like a lazy business owner. But when it comes to, like, all those little things, I can be lazy. But why should photographers like me be considering even printing their photos, versus just giving their client all the digital files?
Karen Clouse: [00:16:27] Okay. So first and foremost, if you are lazy and it’s okay to feel that it is so easy to sell prints, I mean it’s literally just a couple of clicks and you’re making that extra money. So it is of course a way to earn extra profits, especially if you price your prints and other products. Well, and that’s definitely an important thing to understand how to do, but also providing print options. I think right within the gallery is good customer service. So, you know, when you provide those digital images to your clients, do you think they’re really printing them? Some might be some might be going down to Costco and printing out, you know, ugly colored prints. But then there are others that that don’t ever print them out, you know. So for those that aren’t printing, I bet they would start printing if it’s easy for them to do right within the gallery. And for those that do printing, having the option right there within the gallery removes the barrier of them having to do that extra work of uploading the files to wherever they’re going to go print them from. They can do it right there. But I think most importantly, selling prints is providing something that your clients and their children and there’s children’s children will cherish forever. And that’s kind of the job of the photographer is to understand that and how to. Hurt that to their client and educate them on the, you know, the need for that.
Megan Breukelman: [00:17:56] And you mentioned in that list of many, many reasons. I mean, I totally get it. But you mentioned how to price yourself. How does a photographer figure out what to charge for their prints?
Karen Clouse: [00:18:08] So this is going to depend, of course, on the business model. And I think that takes a lot of learning. I mentioned before that I’ve talked to tens of thousands of photographers. So I’ve heard of probably ten thousand different business models. And, you know, some of it might be trial and error, but I think some of it also has to do with knowing your business, knowing your cost of doing business. I think of one photographer, couple here locally in Atlanta who they were actually just in visiting us in the office last week. And I was talking to them specifically about their mini sessions and they sell their mini sessions. The session fee is forty nine dollars, which is like such a low cost that I said to them, What? Yeah. Forty nine dollars. And I said, well, how do you know what if those people come and pay you the forty nine dollars for the mini session and then they order a five by seven. And the wife said, well, our average purchase is eight hundred dollars from our forty nine dollar mini session. Hundred dollars. Eight hundred dollars from a twenty minute mini session. So you know I kind of started digging into that and I was super curious like how is that the average. That means there’s people spending more than that. And she said, well, you know, it all comes down to finding the right client. They market themselves to to attract the right kind of client. And they aren’t afraid to turn away work if they know that it’s not going to be worth it for them. So, you know, there’s just got to be a point when you understand your business well enough that you know, what’s the right way to price things. Now, I will say that they do in-person sales. S
o I think it’s a little bit easier to make that sale when you have so many samples there for clients to touch and feel. And, you know, there’s this kind of like a more almost like you’re at the checkout line at the counter and you want to grab one more thing, you know, grab one more thing of gum or something. It’s kind of I think in person sales is kind of like that, but $800 is nothing to sneeze at. I was really impressed with that. So, you know, on the other hand, I see lots of photographers, especially beginning photographers, who are selling a four by six for three dollars. And really, what’s their margin on that? That’s not sustainable. Like you can’t keep running your business like that. So it takes work. I mean, you’ve got to learn your cost of doing business and figure out what you know, what is the I guess, the salary that you want to make. You want to make sure that that you’re making a livable wage. And part of that is working in the prints into that. I think it’s also a good way, especially someone like you who’s who has been selling like all inclusive digital’s selling prints is also a way to kind of catch up on some of that, maybe some of that margin that you could have missed out on before, because when you’re selling a print, you’re not selling a piece of paper with ink on it. That is what the lab is selling you as the photographer. What you’re selling your client is everything that is all wrapped up into that one piece of paper. You know, it’s the whole experience. It’s the feeling they get from it. It’s all of the time that you spent marketing to the clients, driving to the location, taking the pictures, editing afterwards. So all of those things are kind of involved in selling one single print. So it’s it’s really important to keep that in mind when pricing. That is so true. And a lot about selling prints is about communication with the clients.
Megan Breukelman: [00:21:52] Do you have any advice for how to communicate with your clients about printing and not feeling salesly or pushy?
Karen Clouse: [00:22:01] Yes, absolutely. So offering prints without feeling sales is really difficult at first. And I think it really requires a mindset change for most photographers. And really the mindset change is you’re not selling prints, you’re selling memories and you’re selling nostalgia. So you don’t have to be good at selling, but you have to be good at telling a story. So my favorite thing and I will say that I used to be an all inclusive digital’s only photographer until I had this aha moment. So I’m going to tell this story that I tell my clients. So indulge me for a minute here. So my husband and I at this now, we’ve been married for 18 years. And at that time, digital photography was kind of just starting to come to the forefront, especially in wedding photography. Most. People were still film, but we hired a photographer who in hindsight really did us a disservice by giving us a C.D. with all of the images and a proof book. And then we never saw her again. So, you know, we’re newlyweds. We’re kind of going through life. Didn’t think about printing anything out. I have no idea where that C.D. is right now. And even if I did, I wouldn’t have anything to stick it into a pad. I do have a proof book that has a few hundred images in it that I flip through from time to time, and that’s it. But here’s where it gets good. So about this time, every year I take my parents wedding album down off the shelf because it’s getting to be round the time of their anniversary. They were married in nineteen fifty six or fifty seven. They were married for 50 years before my dad passed away. So looking at the images in that album is one of my most favorite things to do when it’s getting to be their anniversary time. I love looking at the hairstyles that the bridesmaids have. I love looking at my mom’s dress. I love seeing my grandparents who are long gone. I’d love to see like the way my parents are looking at each other. Before I knew them, like long before I knew them, you know, when they were young and fresh and they’re smiling at each other and excited about their future together. I love seeing the car that they’re getting in when they’re getting ready to leave the reception. It’s just also cool and it makes me so happy. And again, it’s that feeling of nostalgia. But here is what kicks in. I start getting sad because my kids don’t have that. It’s a great example of what happens when technology goes away or your clients lose their files, lose their seedy or u_s_b_. And in our case, our wedding photographer. She’s long gone. I don’t think she stayed in business very long. And so there’s no backups. So we’ve got a proof book of a few hundred photos. They’re not arranged in a way that tell a story. A lot of them, most of them have not even been edited at all. So we went through and my husband actually scanned all of those images. And I’m actually in the process right now of designing my own photo album, using this scanned images. So this is. But so think of your own story. Like, you know, if you as a photographer kind of start to get in touch with what certain prints mean to you, whether it’s, you know, looking back at your own family history or looking at even like, you know, world history, important things that happened in this world that we wouldn’t know about if we didn’t have the prints to to see it. So I think once you can kind of start to connect with that authentically, it helps you as a photographer, you know, believe it and be able to sell that story to your clients, because in the end, that is what you’re selling is those memories. So it makes it easier once you’re able to do that.
Megan Breukelman: [00:25:47] That’s so true. And I mean, I feel like I want to buy prints off a you now!
Karen Clouse: [00:25:53] That’s awesome. See, I wasn’t selling, right? I did euros selling right there. I was just telling a story. It’s a true story. You know, I’m not making it up and it’s a touching story so people can identify with it. So I think I think everybody has that kind of story somewhere in their life. They just need to find it and hold onto it and communicate with their clients through it.
Megan Breukelman: [00:26:17] Absolutely. And you’re making me consider going to get some prints of my wedding photos right now, because we we have not made an album yet. We have not done prints. It’s the same situation. We just haven’t had the time. You know what I mean?
Karen Clouse: [00:26:32] The time we’ll get away from you quickly.
Megan Breukelman: [00:26:35] Oh, my goodness. So you’ve mentioned that some photographers are using in person sales to kind of sell more prints. But what about photographers who aren’t comfortable or they’re not ready to do that? What kind of advice do you have for those people?
Karen Clouse: [00:26:50] So an online gallery is the best way to sell without having to meet the person in person. In my opinion, when you are meeting your client for the shoot, feel free to bring some samples. You can show them, you know, samples of the different things that you want to sell there in person. That way they can feel the quality of the print. See the canvases. And after the shoot they can go back home and they’ll start to imagine in their home where those things will fit. So if you do a good job of helping them understand what they need, then by the time you finish editing and deliver that gallery to them, they’re going to already have in their mind what they want to fill their walls with and their table tops. You know, Bill already have that in mind because you planted that ahead of time. So I think in person versus non I.P.S, there’s kind of
like a battle between those two worlds. But I think it can be done both ways. Just be sure to ask questions about how they want. To display their images and you’ll have those samples with you and you can kind of show them. Also, I think focusing on selling only a few types of items kind of helps because if you bring so much stuff, they kind of get that analysis paralysis type thing where they can’t make up their minds. So make sure you curate your offerings to, you know, to to help them make that decision. Also, you can weave that whole storytelling thing into every aspect of the experience. Even if you’re using online galleries, know you’re still going to have the opportunity to communicate with the client. So use every chance you get. They’re looking to you. You’ve they’ve hired you as an expert. So they see you as such. And you and you should value yourself as such, too, if you’re a professional photographer. So as the expert, I think it’s the photographer’s job to help educate the client on the value of those printed objects. And are there other ways to educate your clients, like maybe email marketing or blogging or how to photographers educate their clients? So blogging is huge. You know, you’ve got total control of what kind of communication you’re putting out there. Remembering that what you blog is a reflection of you as a business person and it’s going to help you attract the types of clients that you want. E-mail communication is huge. Like I mentioned, Shootproof, for example, has automated email campaigns so you can set up, you know, maybe four or five email templates and then schedule them to go out to different people at different times. Like I mentioned before, someone who might have abandoned their cart. You can target those emails to those people or people maybe who have favorited an image but haven’t added it to their cart. You can target them with these emails. So all of that can be automated ahead of time. It looks like you’re doing a lot of work after the fact, but you’ve really just been smart ahead of time and set it all up so that after you deliver that gallery, you can sit back and wait for those orders to come in for sure.
Megan Breukelman: [00:29:59] And I feel like I have a million more questions, but I want to be mindful of your time, obviously. So I want to ask, what advice do you have for up-and-coming photographers who are looking to grow and scale their business overall?
Karen Clouse: [00:30:11] That’s a tough one, because I’ve seen so many, so many types of business models that I think there’s room for everybody. I think there can be kind of the feeling of competition among photographers. I think being mindful that there is room for everybody for different types of business models, for different genres, for different styles. Being mindful of that, but then also finding your ideal client and attracting them through showing images like that ideal client in your portfolio. So if your favorite clients are those that have small children, you don’t want to be putting high school seniors in your portfolio or on your website or in your blog or your Instagram or your Facebook. So, you know, put out there to the world who you’re trying to attract and that’s who will naturally come to you. We talked about pricing before. I think that is a super huge piece of advice for up and coming photographers is to be intelligent about your cost of doing business. Make sure you’re making a livable wage. Don’t worry about what others are doing. Focus on your business and how you can provide that exceptional client experience to your intended client. And I think never stop learning. You know, don’t ever get content in what, you know, always, always be learning and looking for new inspiration. And my favorite thing is to learn how to tell a story so that you’ll never have to sell a thing.
Megan Breukelman: [00:31:42] That is a quotable quote if I’ve ever heard one. Wow. Thank you so much. There is so much good advice in everything you’ve said. And I really appreciate you taking the time to chat today.
Karen Clouse: [00:31:53] Awesome. I’m glad to be here. And thank you for inviting me.
Megan Breukelman: [00:31:56] Of course. So where can our listeners find you?
Karen Clouse: [00:32:00] So they can find us at Shootproof.com – we do have a free 14-day trial. So, you know, if you’ve got a session coming up, I think signing up for that free 14-day trial is a great idea. The trial gives you all of the features as if you were in a paid plan. And then beyond that 14 days, we do actually have a free forever plan. That’s for a hundred or fewer images. Or you can upgrade to a paid plan if you like. Our plans are totally flexible. So if you’re the type of photographer who has, say, a busy season for a couple of months of the year, you can pay during that time and then downgrade back when you don’t need it. So it’s totally flexible. And we would love to have some of your listeners come sign up. And just knowing that we have a great support team, we have email and phone support. So most of us are photography. So we’re always happy to chat and help. Not even with just learning how do you Shootproof? But helping kind of guide you business wise as well.
Megan Breukelman: [00:32:58] I also love that your team is like primarily made up of photographers because you can relate. You can actually understand what people are going through in their business.
Karen Clouse: [00:33:06] It’s amazing. And you know, what else is awesome about that is that our office is is really beautiful. We all love beauty. So we have this amazing office that it’s it’s such a joy to come to everyday, to be surrounded just by beautiful things all the time.
Megan Breukelman: [00:33:21] That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much. And I’ll definitely link to Shootproof in the show notes. And yeah, I really appreciate you taking the time to chat today.
Karen Clouse: Thank you. I hope you have a great one.
Megan Breukelman: [00:33:31] Thanks so much for tuning into the Photo Opp Podcast. If you liked this episode, I’d love for you to leave your view and let me know what you liked and what you want to hear more of. Also, head on over to the Facebook community and participate in some conversation with fellow photographers. If you want to reach me directly, feel free to DM me @meganbreukelman, which is linked in the show notes as well. Thanks again for listening, and I’ll see you in a flash!